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Post by rallem on Jan 29, 2011 10:01:56 GMT -6
In book one “The Sorcerer’s Stone or Philosopher’s Stone,” we learn that George and Fred had made a new spell which could turn Ron’s rat yellow, and in book six “The Half Blood Prince,” we learn that Severus Snape created spells to cause open wounds on and levitate targets by their feet. Does anyone else ever wonder how the witches and wizards went about engineering new spells?
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Post by rin68nyr on Jan 29, 2011 11:42:10 GMT -6
That is a great question....somewhere...somehow...they had to start! I know JKR said somewhere how it is done...I'll have to see if I can find that anywhere...
But I think that Fred and George were just egging Ron on in that one...I don't think it was a real spell at all...just trying to make him look foolish trying...
Erin
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Post by rallem on Jan 29, 2011 12:01:01 GMT -6
It is possible Erin that they were egging Ron on, but both Fred and George had demonstrated in later books an ability to create things like spells, potions, and other magical devices. I wonder if creating a spell in the Harry Potter world is similar to arithmetic in the muggle world where certain wand gestures may equal a value and words another and adding them together creates a new spell or value. In math 1+1+1=3, but so doesn’t 2+1. Some spells are non verbal, but the words have to be thought.
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Post by nz101nz on Jan 30, 2011 7:34:12 GMT -6
Maybe there's certain instruction you must follow, kind of like making a potion?
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Post by grandpalovegood on Jan 30, 2011 7:57:50 GMT -6
My thought for the day on this topic.... Well, as for the Twins and the spell they told Ron would turn Scabbers yellow... I always thought it was one of those clues JKR left us to make us think the next time we read the book... well, AFTER we found out about Wormtail and how much a coward/yellow he was... (not only the fact that he was not a real rat so the spell would not work. I guessed it was a clue.) But honestly, to me was JKR's way of thumbing her nose and making a joke so to speak... seeing if we were paying attention to catch it or not.
Still.... this is not what you were getting at with your thought.
I honestly always saw the creations of spells or potions more akin to a cook learning how to create a wonderous recipe in the kitchen. I mean there has to be a million different ways to cook chicken right? Some are better than others. Then it also is important to think about what TYPE of desired affect (baked or fried?) that you desire. Some recipes you won't get the first time you try so you have to test things out a little... Tweek it here... then hold back on the pepper because you learned what might be too much or too powerful... then you only need a dab. It's all trial and error.... and I mean this NOT JUST for potions... but for spell casting and wand waving and word pronunciations to pull things off JUUUUUST right.
Then I see the incantantems.... or the words needed would be in the ancient basic language of latin.. more simple. I've often thought that this has to be a universal language among wizards when it comes to spell casting. I mean... alohamorah will still be the word used no matter where you live in the world or what language is your native tongue.
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Post by grandpalovegood on Jan 30, 2011 8:04:47 GMT -6
Hey... yeah... like adding all of what all of you have said.. NZ's potion idea is my thought spot on with what I always imagined things were supposed to be.. Not only the fact you have to have the certain or correct wand wave to produce things in a certain way... just like what Rallem said.
as for nonverbal spells... I see that it is like driving home... You know your way without having to say the names of the streets you have to pass before you reach your own. You just think the words in the proper way you would... just like if you had pronounced the word out loud. I still see emotion had a strong effect on Snape's spells and how they came out more powerful. THink of the fact it took three wizards to knock him down in the shack when the disarming spell normally ticks the wands out of hand.... Then when Snape does it, he all by himself... (in a heightened emotional state) will knock people down all by himself with the disarming spell. He has a little bit more oompf added in there.
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Post by rallem on Jan 30, 2011 8:32:52 GMT -6
Good thoughts Misscharlotte. I think Albus Dumbledore may have told Harry that wands are only a focus to enhance a witch's or wizard's natural power and some are powerful enough to cast spells without wands. (I think I read this somewhere, but it could have been a fan fiction story) Anyways let's say a witch or a wizard wanted to cast a spell without a wand. Would she or he make the same motion with her or his finger as would a wand, or would they only imagine the motion? I don't think Latin is the so called default language for spells. An example of this is the spell Riddikulus. In Latin it would be Cristo. Also I think Alohomora is a play on the Hawaiian word Aloha which means both hello and goodbye.
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Post by grandpalovegood on Jan 30, 2011 8:46:26 GMT -6
Good thoughts Misscharlotte. I think Albus Dumbledore may have told Harry that wands are only a focus to enhance a witch's or wizard's natural power and some are powerful enough to cast spells without wands. (I think I read this somewhere, but it could have been a fan fiction story) Well yeah... It's said in the books somewhere. Also that there is such a thing as wandless magic.. but I would think that would be along the same lines as nonverbal spells.. First it's better to perfect ti WITH the words spoken or the wand in hand before trying to perfect it without words spoken aloud as well as no wands. The magic is possible either way... This is what I thought this topic was about.. the "creation" or the "perfection" of a new spell. Neither the spoken word nor the wand in hand is needed.. but until perfected.. during the trial and error stage.. experiment "with" them first. I would not think it's necessary all of the time. I like in the film how Dumbledore or Snape would just simply wave their hand and something would happen. I think this was true somewhere in the books as well.. but it was not anything technical. I guess... my idea is it's more the "mind" that does the magic.. That ALL magic comes from deep within the wizard. I always wondered about that Riddikulus one was about. I thought it was more about saying how Rediculous that whole thing with the Bogart really was. LOL. SO with your idea about the Hawaiian word Aloha... Would you then say the word Alohomora to lock the door when they leave? |
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Post by rallem on Jan 30, 2011 16:21:40 GMT -6
Good thoughts Misscharlotte. I think Albus Dumbledore may have told Harry that wands are only a focus to enhance a witch's or wizard's natural power and some are powerful enough to cast spells without wands. (I think I read this somewhere, but it could have been a fan fiction story) Well yeah... It's said in the books somewhere. Also that there is such a thing as wandless magic.. but I would think that would be along the same lines as nonverbal spells.. First it's better to perfect ti WITH the words spoken or the wand in hand before trying to perfect it without words spoken aloud as well as no wands. The magic is possible either way... This is what I thought this topic was about.. the "creation" or the "perfection" of a new spell. Neither the spoken word nor the wand in hand is needed.. but until perfected.. during the trial and error stage.. experiment "with" them first. I would not think it's necessary all of the time. I like in the film how Dumbledore or Snape would just simply wave their hand and something would happen. I think this was true somewhere in the books as well.. but it was not anything technical. I guess... my idea is it's more the "mind" that does the magic.. That ALL magic comes from deep within the wizard. Except in The Half Blood Prince's potion book didn't he note that he created a spell to be nonverbal. The instructions nvrbl were written I really don't know and I may be mistaken with the Alohomora spell. I am wondering why if it is a play on the Hawaiian word didn't she use Alohamora. There might be more to this but I cannot find it. |
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Post by rallem on Jan 31, 2011 5:12:15 GMT -6
I for story purposes will invent a new spell called Wikifødder, and I will have Severus Snape cast the spell on his pink bunny slippers. Oh wiki is hawaiian for quick and fødder is danish for feet.
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Post by grandpalovegood on Jan 31, 2011 12:17:40 GMT -6
I always assumed that he wanted to make a note to himself to make sure that he wanted to practice this particular one nonverbally. I don't see why it would not work verbally. Remember, Snape said that if you say it then your enemy will know what to expect so they would counter act it. SO if he created a really great spell that he saw was great... he might have learned that they could steel HIS spell if they heard the words so he marked this one specal for him to learn it nonverbally to keep it all to himself. I guess I just never thought that the spell was ONLY one way.
I know.... It's been really bugging me all day yesterday. I kept trying to remember if there was a spell that worked "to do" AND "undo" something. It seems so familar for some reason.
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Post by grandpalovegood on Feb 3, 2011 10:51:36 GMT -6
Yep... He sure is quick footed. Too bad Lily didn't notice in time for a ball of sorts for their school year. He surely would have impressed.
Hmm.... What sort of spell would I create/engineer? Me thinks.....
Ah HA! I know... One that I think we all would want right now... Something that would safely clear away heavy amounts of snow.
amoveo niveus (means remove/clear away snow)
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Post by rallem on Feb 3, 2011 12:41:39 GMT -6
Yep... He sure is quick footed. Too bad Lily didn't notice in time for a ball of sorts for their school year. He surely would have impressed. Hmm.... What sort of spell would I create/engineer? Me thinks..... Ah HA! I know... One that I think we all would want right now... Something that would safely clear away heavy amounts of snow. amoveo niveus (means remove/clear away snow) ;D |
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Post by grandpalovegood on Feb 3, 2011 13:17:30 GMT -6
Look at you! Laughing at me... I see this thread as a perfect place to post what spells WE would want to engineer/create that JKR didn't. Figuring that out could be a challenge since she covered so much on her own.  |
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Post by rin68nyr on Feb 3, 2011 20:33:26 GMT -6
Here's one I had created a while ago. "Mirageo" Makes people from the outside of a house see what you want them to see through the window...not what's really happening. I had made it up for a story I never really wrote.
Erin
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Post by rallem on Feb 4, 2011 7:00:45 GMT -6
Look at you! Laughing at me... I see this thread as a perfect place to post what spells WE would want to engineer/create that JKR didn't. Figuring that out could be a challenge since she covered so much on her own. I never intended to make it look like I was laughing at you, and I apologize if that is what it appeared like. I was laughing at your spell selection and the perfect timing with all the snow we just had. |
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Post by rallem on Feb 4, 2011 7:11:16 GMT -6
Here's one I had created a while ago. "Mirageo" Makes people from the outside of a house see what you want them to see through the window...not what's really happening. I had made it up for a story I never really wrote. Erin I like it Erin and could see several story possiblities. |
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Post by grandpalovegood on Feb 4, 2011 7:16:37 GMT -6
Look at you! Laughing at me... I see this thread as a perfect place to post what spells WE would want to engineer/create that JKR didn't. Figuring that out could be a challenge since she covered so much on her own. I never intended to make it look like I was laughing at you, and I apologize if that is what it appeared like. I was laughing at your spell selection and the perfect timing with all the snow we just had. You crack me up you know that? ;D I was laughing when I posted that yesterday. |
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Post by rallem on Feb 9, 2011 6:09:28 GMT -6
I don't know if many of you remember Bugs Bunny, but I loved his shows growing up, and of all the skits with him one of my favorites was when he had to fight the mean vampire, and while the Vampire was trying to get Bugs the Bunny kept singing the song Abra Kadabra, Pocus Pocus, which would change the form of the vampire from bat to vampire and back. Then Bugs Bunny started mixing up the words to the song saying things like Abra Kapocus and Hocus Kadabra making the vampire turn into half bat half vampire. I just loved that. I would like to mix Avada Kedavra with Abra Kadabra to see what would happen. First I would try Avada Kadabra then Abra Kevadra.  |
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Post by grandpalovegood on Feb 9, 2011 6:21:33 GMT -6
So.... what would YOUR versions produce? ;D
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